Hello from across the pond.
I was wondering what, if any standalone ECU solutions you guys could recommend.
This would be for my 1998 V70R with a 2007 2.5L motor. Looking for something I can tune for a larger turbo application.
I've searched and lurked this section, but I've not found anything standalone... unless it's not coming through correctly in the translator. :eusa_shifty:
Hello from the main land :)
one of the guys who might have experience with this, is DCCCL (http://www.volvo850forum.nl/index.php?action=profile;u=3627).
maybe others too, but he has quite some experience with modding volvo's.
You can go Megasquirt, but VEMS is a popular choice as well. I have the complete wire diagram available if you would need it, which would make installation a lot easier. You deff need to get rid of the MAF sensor. VEMS also has a lot of extra features available (such as integrated wideband).
What power output are you aiming for?
Why should he get rid of the maf sensor ?
Hi Marco, do limitations in measured airflow not apply to VEMS?
Which kind of turbo or what kinda horsepower are you aiming for?
http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/
http://www.nira.se/index.php
Citaat van: Bostel op 14-12-2012 14:09:40
Which kind of turbo or what kinda horsepower are you aiming for?
Good question. For a while I've been going and forth between K24 vs various bigger turbos. I know the K24 is probably the easiest solution, and will be more of a bolt up affair... but I worry also at the end of it, I will just want more anyways, so why not big. Also... my VR is no longer my daily driver... so I'm ok with making it a bit more radical. :)
As for power goals... I feel that with an aggressive tune and the supporting mods, the K24 would have put me at 350-375ish crank horsepower. If you disagree... feel free to let me know. As with a larger turbo, like a Holset HX35, HX40, or a hybrid, I was thinking about 100 over that. (If more, I'll gladly take it)
Citaat van: NinaPaul op 14-12-2012 14:37:38
http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/
Citaat van: Turbobiker op 14-12-2012 14:48:27
http://www.nira.se/index.php
Thank you for the links. I actually was searching online last night further after writing my original post and finally found KMS's website. I've watched their videos before and have been very very curious about the VR build. Hopefully they will write me back.
Diatribe:
------
Here's what my personal view is. Having seen many videos of guys making awesome power overseas, I have wondered why we haven't been doing that here in the states as well. Don't get me wrong, we have some progressive people building some nice cars and are on the right track, but something leads me to believe there's a missing element. What it boils down to is probably tuning, and I'm willing to bet that is superior over there. Thus why I'm here.
So, that being said... my power goals are relative to the realization that it's truly all in the tuning. Putting a huge turbo would increase the power, yes... but would not exact from it it's full potential while also probably making it prone to explosion of the unfavorable kind.
I greatly appreciate your responses and input. :)
Well... there's quite a difference between running a K24 (like I do - see sig) or going the HX35/GT3076/etc route. Are you familiar with Hussein, Ahmad, Matt and those guys from the states? Especially Hussein would be the person to speak to. Here on the NL forum you will only find a select few who have actually owned a 350+ WHP car, most of them not even active anymore (JC Viggen, Schutten, etc).
Not to underestimate the knowledge here, because I have no doubt that there is a lot of that present :) !
So: I think that you need to make up your mind about your WHP goals ;)
Actually, I have hung out with Hussein before. He made the transmission bracket for my M66C swap. Even got him to sign it for me. Such a cool guy, and I know he's going to attempt to use VEMS, but is on hold for a while. :)
I'm interested in just alternatives that maybe aren't being used here stateside.
We even had a guy post I believe from over there with a twin turbo VR... and I didn't get much from what he was using to manage it. It looked to not have a MAF... a technique in which I'm interested.
Then there is the issue of how my 07 motor will or will not hold up to that kind of power. I've asked a tuner here... goes by Lucky... and he wasn't real sure about it, to be honest. Yay for unknown territory. :-P
Also... I've chatted with Marco before and scoured is awesome awesome build. He's been very helpful and kind, as everyone here has been. Thank you :)
Korrupt(ion) from South East Texas, MWC crew ..
Welcome ;)
I'm sorry to inform you that this forum doesn't contain that much information about Standalone ECU's used with Volvo's I5.
There's the KMS thread. TS is very much affiliated with KMS and has a lot of KMS resources available. Hasn't visited this forum in a while though.
There's the BTCC racer thread. This car is equipped with a DTA ECU. The rebuild was outsourced.
Somewhere buried are my projects using LINK Ecu's. I have one 5 cylinder turbo running using an older Linkplus G3, an NA 5 cylinder using an even older Link G2. A newer project will be using a Link G4 Xtreme. Also have a B234 running using a G4 Storm.
Megasquirt isn't used here but some Dutch people used it on the older Volvo 4 cylinder models.
VEMS isn't used here either but is used in the Netherlands by some.
Nira i3 isn't used here afaik. There is a dealer here. Think they only did a Diesel ECU install.
VEMS is used by Homer over at VS and Turbobricks on an I5. It is used in Sweden also. I think you will find more information over at TB than you will find here. The Buchka brothers have a lot of experience with both MS and VEMS.
I guess there are a couple more ECU's capable of running the 5 cylinder but non come to mind at the moment. (AEM should have a capable ECU. There's also 034EFI.)
The biggest issue I guess isn't really weather a particular ECU can run the I5 but if there is support available nearby.
All other common sense will get you a long way in the right direction. Most speed shops in the US should be able to help you set up a 5 cylinder because the only real issue with these ECU's is the capability of running the 5 cylinder ignition sequence. If this logic isn't incorporated in the software it's a no go. For fuel you could always revert back to a more basic batch fire setup. Not clean but it works.
Nicest would be sequential ignition and fuel although Volvo's rotor setup is also more than capable.
The one thing which will not work at the moment is the dash engine temperature gauge. This because Volvo uses some fancy frequency driven setup between the ECU and dash. A simple way to overcome this issue is to leave the OEM ECU in place. With this setup a second temperature sensor is needed for the standalone ECU. from what I recall Karl Buchka was willing to take a look at this issue and if possible provide a solution for VEMS and MS. I think it was discussed in Homer's thread over at TB some time ago.
Good luck with the project!
Proof that Hussein is cool!
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7018/6552211935_08263a9ae1_b.jpg)
Citaat van: Johann op 14-12-2012 18:01:08
Korrupt(ion) from South East Texas, MWC crew ..
Welcome ;)
I'm sorry to inform you that this forum doesn't contain that much information about Standalone ECU's used with Volvo's I5.
There's the KMS thread. TS is very much affiliated with KMS and has a lot of KMS resources available. Hasn't visited this forum in a while though.
There's the BTCC racer thread. This car is equipped with a DTA ECU. The rebuild was outsourced.
Somewhere buried are my projects using LINK Ecu's. I have one 5 cylinder turbo running using an older Linkplus G3, an NA 5 cylinder using an even older Link G2. A newer project will be using a Link G4 Xtreme. Also have a B234 running using a G4 Storm.
Megasquirt isn't used here but some Dutch people used it on the older Volvo 4 cylinder models.
VEMS isn't used here either but is used in the Netherlands by some.
Nira i3 isn't used here afaik. There is a dealer here. Think they only did a Diesel ECU install.
VEMS is used by Homer over at VS and Turbobricks on an I5. It is used in Sweden also. I think you will find more information over at TB than you will find here. The Buchka brothers have a lot of experience with both MS and VEMS.
I guess there are a couple more ECU's capable of running the 5 cylinder but non come to mind at the moment. (AEM should have a capable ECU. There's also 034EFI.)
The biggest issue I guess isn't really weather a particular ECU can run the I5 but if there is support available nearby.
All other common sense will get you a long way in the right direction. Most speed shops in the US should be able to help you set up a 5 cylinder because the only real issue with these ECU's is the capability of running the 5 cylinder ignition sequence. If this logic isn't incorporated in the software it's a no go. For fuel you could always revert back to a more basic batch fire setup. Not clean but it works.
Nicest would be sequential ignition and fuel although Volvo's rotor setup is also more than capable.
The one thing which will not work at the moment is the dash engine temperature gauge. This because Volvo uses some fancy frequency driven setup between the ECU and dash. A simple way to overcome this issue is to leave the OEM ECU in place. With this setup a second temperature sensor is needed for the standalone ECU. from what I recall Karl Buchka was willing to take a look at this issue and if possible provide a solution for VEMS and MS. I think it was discussed in Homer's thread over at TB some time ago.
Good luck with the project!
Hello Johann!! You have no idea how many of your video's I've watched time and time again. :)
Thanks for all of the info, and perhaps I'm asking in the wrong spot. Honestly... I'm just looking for different answers from what I expect to be the normal responses in the states. VS isn't always the most productive venue when it comes to being experimental, IMO. Don't get me wrong... met some terrific friends there.
Since moving to Texas this year (yee haw) and having the VR move to project status... I've just wanted to explore different options. I'm on my own here, really... and am trying to figure out how to do things differently.
Thanks for the re-direct. I'll ask elsewhere. :)
I don't know how good you are with ECU-tuning but in the UK is a company located (http://www.turbo-tuner.co.uk (http://www.turbo-tuner.co.uk)) that can make an usb-port to a bosch motronic 4,3 & 4,4 . So you can tune your engine with a normal laptop, they also have a north american distributor.
JCViggen here on the forum used a modified ECU from this company on his 400+bhp T5-R.
Korrupt,
I know from some guys from the Subaruscene, where i hung out a long time, that some of them are using Autronic. Some are specific for ricers(Sub, Honda or Mits) but there are some available for Volvo's and others.
http://tinyurl.com/brlmodd
http://tinyurl.com/d5vqgbt
For even more info, check out the Autronic-forum. They might be able to answer most off you questions.
http://tinyurl.com/crazov9
Have fun,
Marc
Autronic is getting old. Not much has happened in the last 4 years or so. This after a guy called Ray Hall, who used to be an Autronic distributor but did most of the Autronic support, decided to drop support and start a new ECU brand.
For this to happen he started working together with Link. Instead of becoming a Link distributer a rebranded Link ECU was offered under the name Vi-Pec. There's the Vi-Pec V44,
(http://www.umtwo.com/images/V44kitm_b.jpg)
which is basically the same as the Link G4 Storm and only capable of running 4 cylinder sequential and there's the I5 capable V88,
(http://image.modified.com/f/27828062/modp_1007_21_o+ems_fuel_system_guide+v88_v44.jpg)
which is basically the same as the first revision of the Link G4 Xtreme, the silver anodized case version.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/FLIWRX/Link-G4-US-STI-Plug-inECU-6.jpg)
The Vi-Pec V88 (Link G4 Xtreme V1) is capable of running electronic throttle out of the box. The later Link G4 Xtreme, red anodized case version,
(http://www.swededemon.com/images/area34/images2/parts/linkg4x.jpg)
had the electronic throttle logic removed while the Vi-Pec V88 remained as it was. The Link can now only do electronic throttle using an optional throttle module sacrificing two I/O outputs.
Mr. Ray Hall was responsible for a huge transformation of the tuning software used with both the Link and the Vi-Pec ECU's. With the transformation some of Autronic's best features were also implemented in the software.
Im not sure if Motronic 4.3/4.3 can control a 2007 engine Bostel.
Johann, reading your stories I'm getting this feeling that most of these standalone ECU's are created by very small companies where the quality and availability of support relies on a single person.
Citaat van: Martijn_B op 14-12-2012 21:40:53
Im not sure if Motronic 4.3/4.3 can control a 2007 engine Bostel.
Johann, reading your stories I'm getting this feeling that most of these standalone ECU's are created by very small companies where the quality and availability of support relies on a single person.
You're right, I missed the 2007 part in the post of the topic starter.
Citaat van: Martijn_B op 14-12-2012 21:40:53
Im not sure if Motronic 4.3/4.3 can control a 2007 engine Bostel.
Johann, reading your stories I'm getting this feeling that most of these standalone ECU's are created by very small companies where the quality and availability of support relies on a single person.
Autronic is Australian, Link is from New Zealand. Motec, Haltech, Microtech, Wolf and some others are also from Australia. Guess one lead to the other.
2007 engine can run with M4.3 but without VVT functionality.
Try motec , they exsist a lot of years now .
( more then 20 years )
A lot of the guys in the rally and racing business in the uk use motec
Motec is (too) expensive....